Macguffin Games

1. 

   magadog
   Member

   So, in the family tree Kalle and Velna are listed as offspring of the starting hero; when Kaisa gets added, she's listed as offspring of whoever introduced her. In all these cases there's no suggestion in the text that there's an actual blood-relationship.

   There are two possibilities here. One, the tree can't cope with unattached branches yet, and this is intended for a future release; or two, the tree represents some sort of patronage system, possibly interlinked with symbolic adoption (like the Romans, or maybe some kind of moiety system). If so, this needs to be a bit more explicit, because otherwise players will assume it's meant as a literal family tree (and thus a broken one.)

   More long-term, it would be awesome if cultural decisions affected which family relationships were possible and how those relationships functioned. (Yeah, I know how easy it is to think of six awesome bloats before breakfast. Apologies.)

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   Graham
   Administrator

   We've generally wanted to keep the family tree fairly...open to interpretation?

   Essentially, we don't want to imply that blood relation is the only thing that makes you worthy of being one of Nef Loviisa's movers and shakers. We were generally working under the assumption that, if those who enter the family in non-standard ways are just as legitimate looking in the family tree as anyone else, it would communicate that intent to the players.

   Since family trees are a well known part of life, and use a certain set of well known symbols to communicate information, maybe that isn't working so well?

   Would changing the screen from "family" to "house" help adjust that set of expectations?

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   Romtos
   Member

   Well, I think the most confusing part is that the lines indicate a hierarchy from left to right. Since children are added in this hierarchy from left to right, it's implied there must be a direct blood connection to the main hero. I think it would be more clear if either the lines got separate colours for blood/non-blood relations or parallel tracks for different bloodlines.

   I've got a sig

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   MarkDey
   Member

   To me, I don't much care whether there is a blood connection or not. Having a defined hierarchy is useful to determine who is getting cared for when time is spent with children, as well as determining who is going to get old and die next.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   magadog
   Member

   "House" is a step in the right direction, definitely, but I don't think it clears everything up.

   MarkDey: I don't think the issue here is about biological children vs. adoptions; that's a model that everyone in your audience will be familiar with. The issue is children (whether adopted or not) vs. people who get brought into the power structure as adults.

   At the moment, what the family tree says is:
   a) In order to become a significant political figure, you need to have a special relationship of some kind with one (and only one) existing politician.
   b) This relationship is functionally equivalent to the relationship between an adult and their parent.

   I can readily imagine social structures in which this would make sense. But a lot of players are going to think "is this family tree broken, or did I miss something in the text?" When I first saw this I wasn't sure whether it was intentional, or just the result of the family tree not being properly implemented yet.

   I see three possible approaches to clear up the confusion:
   1) As Romtos suggested, have parallel trees. Adopted children get into their parent's tree; adult additions to the family/house don't. This creates more issues to deal with (players will want to engineer marriages between the lines; and won't unrelated branches want to worship their own ancestors?)
   2) Keep the structure of the tree as it is, but distinguish (visually and functionally) between children and people who emerged from the ranks. This keeps the patronage/whatever system ambiguous, but preserves your tree.
   3) Keep the tree as-is, but emphasize in the relevant intro and event text that the patronage system involves adult adoption; in the eyes of the culture and the law, Kalle and Velna are regarded as Lelia's children.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   Woodsy
   Member

   I'm going to agree with Magadog on the note that if someone's brought into the tree as an adult, but is on the level with the children, that potentially confuses keeping track of who's going to grow old first. I've actually disliked the games where Kasia didn't get adopted by Lelia for that reason.

   Posted 2 years ago #

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